tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5152715287192963411.post2412606038256626609..comments2023-09-08T07:39:05.856-04:00Comments on Vicki Voisin - The Paralegal Mentor with Paralegal Career Strategies: Is the Term 'Non-Lawyer' Disrespectful?Paralegal Mentorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08327049706431074826noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5152715287192963411.post-69626227322804409742009-08-14T22:08:23.693-04:002009-08-14T22:08:23.693-04:00I may be full of stuff here, but I think the term ...I may be full of stuff here, but I think the term "non-lawyer" comes not from a two-tiered system but a three-tiered one. <br /><br />Back in the day, there were partners, there were associates (non-partner attorneys) and there was everybody else. In those days, the word "staff" meant everyone who wasn't a partner. I believe the use of non-lawyer evolved to differentiate between licensed staff and unlicensed staff. <br /><br />Since this issue came up, I've been thinking about how non-licensed staff, as a group, could be identified without using "non" but I haven't yet come up with anything. I'd be much happier with a two-tiered system where one was either lawyer or staff, in instances where licensing distinguishes the groups, but law office culture evolves slowly so I don't see it happening during my working years.<br /><br />As between being called a "non-lawyer" or "non-licensed" or worse, "unlicensed," I'll take non-lawyer. In truth, since I've always worked in very small firms, in situations where I don't have to establish my legal bona fides, I generally refer to myself as "the help." <br /><br />Wendy Kimbel, ACP, NCCPWendyNChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684838805174960356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5152715287192963411.post-33417062017045036812009-08-11T12:26:56.774-04:002009-08-11T12:26:56.774-04:00Hello to all & thanks for your comments regard...Hello to all & thanks for your comments regarding the big "N-L" word and my concerns over its use. Please see my most recent blog post (http://bit.ly/250Q4L) and my comments below in reply to Ms. Agius's comments re the ABA Rules.<br /><br /> I may be missing something especially w/my travel weary brain these days, but not sure if I quite understand Ms. Agius's point here. Assuming I do understand her post correctly, she does not take offense to being called a non or "un" lawyer and if she did, she would fix it by getting her law degree. We sure need more great women lawyers amongst us, but to me, that would be one heck of a tough way to deal w/the non-lawyer word! Others who may not like it are probably like me and try to always wear their imaginary "thick skins" so as not to be over sensitive to other people's INsensitivities. I do not think, however, that it is OK to accept the "N-L" word just because the ABA (or any other entity or person) uses the word in a non-attacking manner. If other professions and trades avoid calling those outside their fields non-architects, non-nurses, non-bankers, non-doctors, non-maintenance workers, non-business owners, etc.... I just can't for the life of me understand why our wonderful legal profession can’t do the same?!<br /><br />Lawyers used to think they would never advertise, never email, never allow staff to do more than type, never act like a business (because attorneys were professionals NOT businesses so they thought!) and so on and so on....things do and must change as the years roll by and while it doesn't keep me awake at night, I really hope I live long enough to see one of the greatest professions in the world totally eliminate the "N-L" word from its collective vocabulary. Just because we've always used the word by no means prevents us from deciding it's inappropriate to do so and that we could do better! And IMHO :-) ---- if it offends even ONE of our profession's great legal assistants whom are so very critical to the success of the entire team, that's one too many ---- especially when we have such a vast number of other words we could use instead. <br /><br />Thanks for listening and your comments to Vicki's post re my "N-L' post! I wish everyone a great week and one that's full of smiles shared by you and shared with you!<br />Nancy Byerly Jones (Twitter:@lawbusinesstips, Blog:www.lawbusinesstips.com; and website:www.nbjconsulting.com)MountainGalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763228280948676470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5152715287192963411.post-17222933372214103762009-07-31T09:52:16.276-04:002009-07-31T09:52:16.276-04:00The term "nonlawyer" is taken directly f...The term "nonlawyer" is taken directly from the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct:<br /><br />------<br /><br />Law Firms And Associations<br />Rule 5.3 Responsibilities Regarding Nonlawyer Assistants<br /><br />With respect to a nonlawyer employed or retained by or associated with a lawyer:<br /><br />(a) a partner, and a lawyer who individually or together with other lawyers possesses comparable managerial authority in a law firm shall make reasonable efforts to ensure that the firm has in effect measures giving reasonable assurance that the person's conduct is compatible with the professional obligations of the lawyer;<br /><br />(b) a lawyer having direct supervisory authority over the nonlawyer shall make reasonable efforts to ensure that the person's conduct is compatible with the professional obligations of the lawyer; and<br /><br />(c) a lawyer shall be responsible for conduct of such a person that would be a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct if engaged in by a lawyer if:<br /><br /> (1) the lawyer orders or, with the knowledge of the specific conduct, ratifies the conduct involved; or<br /><br /> (2) the lawyer is a partner or has comparable managerial authority in the law firm in which the person is employed, or has direct supervisory authority over the person, and knows of the conduct at a time when its consequences can be avoided or mitigated but fails to take reasonable remedial action.<br /><br />------<br /><br />I don't find it particularly offensive, as I made the choice to NOT go on to law school, etc., to remove the "non" tag. <br /><br />It sort of reminds me of a soft drink advertising campaign. Does anyone else remember 7Up as the "uncola"? Maybe "unlawyer" would be less offensive?Margaret Lucas Agiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18294552980189101808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5152715287192963411.post-77275161166876178742009-07-30T21:29:12.838-04:002009-07-30T21:29:12.838-04:00I had never given much thought about this term unt...I had never given much thought about this term until a few weeks ago when someone brought it up on Twitter. At first glance, I found it to be slightly offensive. <br /><br />When I brought it up to my boss, though, he had a different thought. He believes the term came about as a necessary distinction between lawyers (those bound by the ABA ethics rules) and non-lawyers (those not specifically bound by the ABA ethics rules). It was an important way to classify people in the office based on who would be liable in certain situations. While non-lawyers should follow the guidelines the ABA sets out where applicable, they are not bound the same way attorneys are. <br /><br />I am sure some people use the term disrepectfully, but those same people would probablye sneer the word "paralegal", too.ParaMelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08519414199965242231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5152715287192963411.post-42820085391641682322009-07-30T15:02:37.864-04:002009-07-30T15:02:37.864-04:00I think the respectability of the term, 'non-l...I think the respectability of the term, 'non-lawyer,' truly depends on the context in which it is used. For example, the term is often used in articles and texts discussing the dangers of UPL (unauthorized practice of law). When used in this regard, I think the term is acceptable as a means of educating the public (and the legal profession) as to the professional limitations of 'non-lawyers.' However... I don't see any other arena in which the use of the phrase is acceptable. For the most part, paralegals and support staff should be introduced as precisely what they are--as opposed to what they are not. When people ask me what I do for a living, I tell them I am a paralegal, not a 'non-lawyer.' If they ask me for legal advice, I then clarify that I am not a lawyer and that I cannot provide legal advice. Notwithstanding, I am a professional within my capacity of a paralegal, just as legal secretaries and research specialists are also professionals. Aside from avoiding UPL and clarifying ones status with clients to clear up any confusion, I see no reason to introduce anyone as a 'non' anything.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01432922394769239956noreply@blogger.com